wrench light - 2008 6.4 F-550

[opcom]

I bought a 2008 F-550 with 98K miles. It was still under the Ford warranty for drivetrain but had the usual "as-is" sticker on the window. I had it in the service for some minor stuff and the front end was not in alignment and the vacuum pump for the 4x4 engagement was replaced because the 4x4 was blowing fuses. That got fixed. When I had left it, I had their tech ride with me and tried to ask them questions about the engine sound, he said it was normal. -so it has been in there for an issue I was not sure about, before the 100K warranty was up. They didn't attach anything to it, he just said it was OK.

There has been no apparent change or problems with the running of the truck.

So, it has now just 100600 miles after about a month. Sunday morning I drove it a few miles and then parked it in my driveway. Today - Monday AM, it would not start, just cranked. Then it started, then the wrench lit up on the display and it shut off. Repeated this 3-4 times.

I had it towed to a closer dealer and his tech checked the prime, the low pressure pump (8 psi), and used a toughbook computer with some dongle on it to show oscilloscope traces of various voltages while he cranked it.

He said the low pressure was OK, and the indication was the high pressure (rail) sensor was out of range.

He said the passenger valve cover has to come off to check the sensor with a meter. 6-7 hours.

He said if it is not the sensor, it is the high pressure pump, which requires removal of the cab. (I know this part is supremely expensive).

I called Sam Pack Ford, the dealer I originally got the truck from, and they said to said bring it in. The salesman, after talking to the service manager, said they would not help me to get this covered under the 100K warranty. (apparently salespeople are stuck with any after-sale problems)

So, could this be caused by driving through some water in the rain? and water spraying up on the engine? A bad connection on a connector under the hood? I know mechanical diesels and I know electronics, but I do not know this tricky computerized engine.

It seems unlikely that a sensor would just quit, but maybe they do..

It seems extremely unlikely that the high pressure fuel pump would die overnight sitting in the driveway with no warning or decrease in performance at all. My experiences with diesels and both injector pumps and PT (pressure-time) pumps indicate they die not instantly, but over a time period, whether it is minutes or hours or in some cases days, but there is always a warning, some feel that is not right or a loss of power before the end.

If this thing has a bad HP pump, I am wanting to pressure Ford to cover it but I do not know where to call. 100600 miles for this failure is not acceptable.

Does anyone have experience concerning this kind of failure and might want to comment on the information I have provided from the technician?

[BIG JOE]

Sounds like a Good Scan For Codes.. would be the thing to do. With a Printed Read Out.

Then....

Before you try and deal with a Dealer again.. you might want to go to a Higher level.

On Ford's Sites, and in the Owners manual, there are numbers to call and sites to visit.. for reliability (Over Warranty) issues. Telling the higher level folks about your issues, and dis-pleasure, will sometimes help. THEY might contact a Dealer for at least a good assessment.. often on Ford's Dime ?

[opcom]

Its at Sam Pack now. -this- technician says the low pressure fuel pressure is insufficient and the system has air in it. The manager said that the tech said the fuel line pressure is too low, 8PSI, but when I started asking questions, the manager was not really sure what he was trying to tell me as this is all 2nd hand from the tech (so I have to talk to the tech. ) I didn't press him.

The manager also said the tech said he found air in the system, purged it, and the truck runs fine and stays running and he clarified this is correct.

On experience the tech wants to inspect the fuel tank for a broken pickup because he has seen this a few times. Ok, I said, I'll pay for experience but not for guesses, asked them to go ahead an drop the tank, and to please take a close look at the fuel because I just filled it from near-empty at a particular station. The filters were just changed on October 2011.

I can see that assuming they fix this right, no charges for bad guesses, etc, that I'm going to have to get the manager on board with the tech speaking to me directly on these matters. I guess they are not used to people with knowledge and therefore not used to customers asking questions. Speaking directly to the tech will fix that.

BIG JOE you are right, I need a scan tool and printouts because that's two techs gave me different stories. At least this one (Sam Pack) is not trying to tear into the engine first.

The service manager at Sam Pack gave me the # to Ford's customer service line and said that although he can't help me with that (because he won't get paid by Ford), I can bring complaints or pressure to Ford and that may get Ford to authorize the work.


What I really want is that laptop with the dongle and software. THAT is a real diagnostic tool. I think it tells the computer what analog/digital inputs (from the sensors) to digitize and send over the CANbus to the PC, and subsequently displays them as oscilloscope traces.

I know these techs and others are working hard to find the problem. What I'm annoyed with is that there is a problem to begin with on a costly 3 year old product.

In my field, semiconductors, our automotive products are absolutely not allowed to fail for the life time of the vehicle (except for external causes). Maybe my expectations for other components are too high..

[opcom]

p.s. in the meantime, I am driving a rented Chrysler minivan. The humiliation is complete.

[BIG JOE]

Originally Posted by opcom

p.s. in the meantime, I am driving a rented Chrysler minivan. The humiliation is complete.

OH NO !!

Well.. just use roads & streets where no one knows you

[opcom]

Apparently the truck has been in too many dirty places and rattling around offroad quite a bit. I know that it used to have a small crane on it and was used to pick up brush along the right of way of the giant power lines.

The fuel tank vents on the midships (standard) tank leak, and dirt has gotten in the tank. The fuel strainer has fallen off the pickup tube, exposing the pickup to air. The line became air-bound and this partially ruined the electric fuel pump. I assume it is a gearmotor type. The fuel cap on the aft tank is loose and leaking air (admitting dirt).

The fuel filters were replaced on October of this year according to records. This dealer looked up the service history.

Apparently I am the cause of the towing bills. Because the midships tank, when full, dripped fuel through its loose vents when the truck was parked on the 18 degree incline that is the front part of my driveway, I only filled the tank partway and have been keeping it as a 'reserve'. I run on the 40 gallon rear tank. By luck or idiocy, I was switched to the midships tank, and being almost empty, with the screen assembly missing, it has sucked air into the low pressure pump on several occasions. This has cause the pump to behave erratically, finally causing the truck not to start.

All this will be fixed, tanks cleaned, etc, to the tune of $1400. So, that is a lot but it would have only gotten worse and I would have maybe never discovered how dirty the tanks were, etc. leading to much worse problems at some future time.

Besides the cost, the thing that stands out most is the fact that the tech at the 'close to home' dealer wanted to start tearing into the engine for diagnostic reasons. The tech at Sam Pack found these other issues first, which are actual real problems that I would want corrected even if the truck was not dead-lined.

Yay tomorrow ought to be the last day of minivan use. Just in time as I have to pick up a friend who had surgery and the F-550 would have been an unkind ride.

[BIG JOE]

WOW.. sounds like that "Tech" has some Mechanical savy too. Kinda hard to find that theze dayz ?

IMO, 1400 for that much work ain't bad either.. with todays shop labor being what it is.

Glad they got it all sorted out

Joe

[opcom]

report is in - for anyone else with this issue -

I'm disregarding the report of the first tech at the dealer close to me, because it was likely on the wrong track.

I am also showing the cost of this repair as it may be of interest.

Here are the details from the bill. Not every last thing done was listed in the labor, i.e. I saw both tanks out and apart, but I'm satisfied the report is accurate to the repair.


(1) XF8C3Z*9275*U SENDER ASY - FUEL TANK 268.00
midship dk

(1) XF8C3Z*9G282*A PUMP ASY - FUEL 414.05

(2) XFF7UZ*9B593*BA VALVE ASY - FUEL VAPOR 88.84

(2) XF8C3Z*9030*C CAP ASY - FUEL TANK FILLER 51.36

(1) XFTA*31* SEALANT - SILICONE 23.98
================
PARTS: 847.03
LABOR: 707.00
================

CHECKED FOR WRENCH LIGHT ON AND HARD TO START

PERFORMED SELF TEST

FOUND CODE P2291

BLED FUEL SYSTEM

ROAD TEST WRENCH LIGHT CAME ON AGAIN WITH THE SAME CODE

INSTALLED FUEL PRESSURE GAUGE AND DROVE VEHICLE

FOUND THAT THE FUEL PRESSURE WAS GOING DOWN TO 4 PSI ONLY AT TIMES

DROPPED REAR FUEL TANK AND FOUND FUEL PICK UP SCREEN CAME OFF AND WAS BLOCKING THE FUEL SENDER

REPLACED FRONT TANK FUEL SENDING UNIT

REPLACED ON FRAME FUEL PUMP

REINSTALLED REAR TANK

REPLACED LEAKING FRONT TANK BREATHERS

ROAD TEST OK

FINAL TEST PASS
================

th.th.th.that's all, folks!

[DaveBen]

That is a great dealer you found there. Don't lose his number.

Dave

[opcom]

spford dot com

as we know, it can be a roll of the dice! This is my first experience there - ask me after a couple more repairs. - But they did a thorough job, and didn't start by asking to take the engine apart.