What alternate fuel would you like to see replace oil?

[02SilverStroke]

Saw this on www.gasbuddy.com in this week's poll.
The results as of a few minutes ago are:
Hydrogen 37%, Ethanol 29%, BIODIESEL 12% (my pick), Electricity 11%, Other 7%, and Propane 1%.
I thought they were pretty interesting, just figured BIODIESEL would be a little higher.

 

[95_stroker]

Im up for anything that will reduce our dependency on petroleum in the future. Hydrogen will most likely lead the pack but I would like to see bio-fuels get some attention too for obvious reasons.

If you go through some of gas buddys previous polls there are some very interesting results.

One poll asked as gas prices increase towards 3.00/gal will you conserve more and an overwhelming majority said yes (70+%) while another poll asked if as prices rose will anybody be purchasing a more fuel efficient vehicle the majority said no (nearly 40%) and in yet another poll 50% of the respondents said no matter how high fuel gets they wouldnt change vehicles for a more efficient one.

 

[oi8228oi]

bio up to 12% now

 

[Tx_Atty]

I dont understand the hydrogen attraction. I can see the new sedan - the VW Hindenburg... didnt the Pinto have the same flamability issues a few years back? Yes, Im sure they would try to make it more secure but I'll stick with bio.

 

[hheynow]

I dont understand the hydrogen attraction.

It will really have zero emissions. Problem is that unless we build many new nuclear plants we will never be able to produce it economically. Burning coal is not the answer to hydrogen production. Although us here are diesel prejudiced, I like biodiesel too because it's cost effective to produce and in areas of the country that have no agra-business, the WVO market is recycling, but diesel is a small fraction of the total market. Ethanol is a farce. It costs more to produce in America than the energy it offers and to make it viable the government is subsidizing the industry. In Brazil on the other hand it's much cheaper to produce to the energy it yields because Brazil grows a lot of sugar cane which is very high in sugars compared to corn.

 

[Roland_Jenkins]

Ethanol

 

[Tail_Gunner]

I vote for hydrogen.

Gasoline, ethenol, alcohol, LP gas, bio-diesel. They'll all burn or go boom under the right circumstances. That's why it's called fuel.

Hydrogen is hands down the most quantiful fuel available. You make it from water, the most plentiful thing on the planet. And its only by-product is water.

If they can ever figure out the nuclear fusion thing and use it to make new power plants and start making hydrogen powered truck and cars, all of our overpriced oil woes will be a thing of the past as well as many of our air pollution problems.

 

[95_stroker]

I dont understand the hydrogen attraction.

Here is some insight as to the attraction to H2.

The hydrogen fuel cell operates similar to a battery. It has two electrodes, an anode and a cathode, separated by a membrane. Oxygen passes over one electrode and hydrogen over the other. The hydrogen reacts to a catalyst on the electrode anode that converts the hydrogen gas into negatively charged electrons (e-) and positively charged ions (H+). The electrons flow out of the cell to be used as electrical energy. The hydrogen ions move through the electrolyte membrane to the cathode electrode where they combine with oxygen and the electrons to produce water. Unlike batteries, fuel cells never run out.

Background

Fuel cells are clean, fuel efficient, and fuel flexible. Any hydrogen-rich material can serve as a potential fuel source for this developing technology. Possibilities include fossil-derived fuels, such as natural gas, petroleum distillates, liquid propane, and gasified coal, or renewable fuels, such as ethanol, methanol, or hydrogen.

The U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) partnered with Ford Motor Company to develop full functional, zero-emission fuel-cell power-system technology for automotive applications. The purpose of this work was to demonstrate the technology in a complete laboratory propulsion system.

This fuel-cell system, which operates on direct hydrogen, should achieve weights and volumes competitive with those of internal-combustion-engine propulsion systems. It should also have the potential to meet competitive production costs.

Achievements

• The world's first direct-hydrogen fuel-cell power system producing more than 50 kilowatts of electrical power without an air compressor was developed by International Fuel Cells under a DOE contract with Ford.
• This system generates enough power to propel a lightweight mid-size car.
• Eliminating the need for a compressor greatly simplifies the system and decreases the auxiliary power requirements, a change resulting in greater energy efficiency

Benefits

• The power plant weighs 300 pounds, has a volume of eight cubic feet, and can easily fit under the hood of the car.
• Achieves high fuel economy (two to three times higher than conventional engines).
• Produces zero pollution.
• Uses non-petroleum fuel.
• Reduces U.S. dependence on imported oil.

More Needs to Be Done

• Low-cost components are necessary for the system to be competitive.
• Low-cost, high-volume manufacturing methods must be developed.
• Lightweight, compact, and affordable hydrogen storage system technologies must be developed.

Anyways, thats not the "be all/end all" info on Hydorgen Fuel but its a good starting point as to its attractiveness as an alternative to petroleum.

 

[95_stroker]

Little bit of History on H2 fuel cells.

In 1839, the first fuel cell was conceived by Sir William Robert Grove, a Welsh judge, inventor and physicist. He mixed hydrogen and oxygen in the presence of an electrolyte, and produced electricity and water. The invention, which later became known as a fuel cell, didn't produce enough electricity to be useful.
In 1889, the term “fuel cell” was first coined by Ludwig Mond and Charles Langer, who attempted to build a working fuel cell using air and industrial coal gas. Another source states that it was William White Jaques who first coined the term "fuel cell." Jaques was also the first researcher to use phosphoric acid in the electrolyte bath.

In the 1920s, fuel cell research in Germany paved the way to the development of the carbonate cycle and solid oxide fuel cells of today.

In 1932, engineer Francis T Bacon began his vital research into fuels cells.

Early cell designers used porous platinum electrodes and sulfuric acid as the electrolyte bath. Using platinum was expansive and using sulfuric acid was corrosive. Bacon improved on the expensive platinum catalysts with a hydrogen and oxygen cell using a less corrosive alkaline electrolyte and inexpensive nickel electrodes.
It took Bacon until 1959 to perfect his design, when he demonstrated a five-kilowatt fuel cell that could power a welding machine. Francis T. Bacon, a direct descendent of the other well known Francis Bacon, named his famous fuel cell design the "Bacon Cell."

In October of 1959, Harry Karl Ihrig, an engineer for the Allis - Chalmers Manufacturing Company, demonstrated a 20-horsepower tractor that was the first vehicle ever powered by a fuel cell.

During the early 1960s, General Electric produced the fuel-cell-based electrical power system for NASA's Gemini and Apollo space capsules. General Electric used the principles found in the "Bacon Cell" as the basis of its design. Today, the Space Shuttle's electricity is provided by fuel cells, and the same fuel cells provide drinking water for the crew.

NASA decided that using nuclear reactors was too high a risk, and using batteries or solar power was too bulky to use in space vehicles. NASA has funded more than 200 research contracts exploring fuel-cell technology, bringing the technology to a level now viable for the private sector.

The first bus powered by a fuel cell was completed in 1993, and several fuel-cell cars are now being built in Europe and in the United States. Daimler Benz and Toyota launched prototype fuel-cell powered cars in 1997.

Maybe the answer to "What's so great about fuel cells?" should be the question "What's so great about pollution, changing the climate or running out of oil, natural gas and coal?" As we head into the next millennium, it is time to put renewable energy and planet-friendly technology at the top of our priorities.
Fuel cells have been around for over 150 years and offer a source of energy that is inexhaustible, environmentally safe and always available. So why aren't they being used everywhere already? Until recently, it has been because of the cost. The cells were too expansive to make. That has now changed.

In the United States, several pieces of legislation have promoted the current explosion in hydrogen fuel cell development: namely, the congressional Hydrogen Future Act of 1996 and several state laws promoting zero emission levels for cars.

Worldwide, different types of fuel cells have been developed with extensive public funding. The United States alone has sunk more than one billion dollars into fuel-cell research in the last thirty years.
In 1998, Iceland announced plans to create a hydrogen economy in cooperation with German car maker Daimler Benz and Canadian fuel cell developer Ballard Power Systems. The 10-year plan would convert all transportation vehicles, including Iceland's fishing fleet, over to fuel-cell-powered vehicles. In March, 1999, Iceland, Shell Oil, Daimler Chrysler, and Norsk Hydro formed a company to further develop Iceland's hydrogen economy.

In February, 1999, Europe's first public commercial hydrogen fuel station for cars and trucks opened for business in Hamburg, Germany. In April, 1999, Daimler Chrysler unveiled the liquid hydrogen vehicle NECAR 4. With a top speed of 90 mph and a 280-mile tank capacity, the car wowed the press. The company plans to have fuel-cell vehicles in limited production by the year 2004. By that time, Daimler Chrysler will have spent $1.4 billion more on fuel-cell technology development.

In August, 1999, Singapore physicists announced a new hydrogen storage method of alkali doped carbon nanotubes that would increase hydrogen storage and safety. A Taiwanese company, San Yang, is developing the first fuel cell powered motorcycle.


Where do we go from here?
There are still issues with hydrogen-fueled engines and power plants. Transport, storage and safety problems need to be addressed. Greenpeace has promoted the development of a fuel cell operated with regeneratively produced hydrogen. European car makers have so far ignored a Greenpeace project for a super-efficient car consuming only 3 liters of gasoline per 100 km.


My God, that was so Hossesque!