Beating a dead horse discussion about the huch mod. IDEA.

NEokcTERROR

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Mine is on 88 PSI. ZERO FP drop with the submerged pump in the tank. ZERO air in the return. My regulator and return are stock (shimmed as it was when I purchased it from a friend). Standard pickup / sock filter on the in-tank pump. Lots more power etc(quicker boost, more boost, more smoke before high boost onandon, better startup cold and hot, and smoother idle. I ran a relay tapped into the wire going to my trailer constant power with the frame pump power wire activating the relay. And I finally put an EGT in it more black smoke bothers me. :burnit

roosterdiesel said:
Is he using the stock regulator and feed system? What's his pressure doing under load with and w/o pusher? Has he use a piece of clear tubing to see how much air he has in his fuel? HEUI injectors hate air in the fuel.

My stock regulator didn't work very good and I could drop 10 psi at WOT in either "hot" program. I was starting to think my pump was going bad after getting bad fuel. I did the hutch mods in the tank and on the frame rail when I cleaned out the bad stuff. When I got a Dahl filter it showed you still get fuel slosh and my truck sucks air around 3/8ths of a tank. Keep it half full or more and there's no air in my Dahl. When I changed to the dual circuit and external regulator the pressure drop is completely gone. Smoke is easier to produce(injectors like fresh, non-aerated fuel at a constant pressure) so I have to watch my mirror when I shift to moderate the throttle since I don't want to waste any of that expensive fuel. The truck is way smoother driving in town and throttle is more precise. The drop kinda sucked even at slow speeds there was a lull in the throttle. I'm happy with what I've done!

If you run a pusher pump with no pre-pump filter then you're just gonna kill 2 pumps with the fuel available to us these days IMO. #2 is dirty!
 
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Hoss 350

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NEokcTERROR said:
Mine is on 88 PSI. ZERO FP drop with the submerged pump in the tank. ZERO air in the return. My regulator and return are stock (shimmed as it was when I purchased it from a friend). Standard pickup / sock filter on the in-tank pump. Lots more power etc(quicker boost, more boost, more smoke before high boost onandon, better startup cold and hot, and smoother idle. I ran a relay tapped into the wire going to my trailer constant power with the frame pump power wire activating the relay. And I finally put an EGT in it more black smoke bothers me. :burnit
How much more power is lots? Are we talking 10K mod or aftermarket intake? :D

I am impressed with your perserverance. Most guys (myself included) would have given up with all of the negative feedback you got on this one. (sort of like my IAH manual operation thread).

It has always made sense to me that the vacuum part of the fuel line would tend to free up air which was otherwise entrained in the fuel. I had read a couple years back during my lurking phase on TDS that someone wanted to try this same idea, but the guys on there talked him out of it based on the idea that if you could just seal up the vacuum portions, you would be fine. This is totally true, but it also occured to me that there would be benefits associated with the fuel pump only having to work to create pressure on the engine side, and wouldn't have to worry about struggling to suck fuel up from the tank side at the same time. It seems to me that your fuel pressure would be a lot more stable under high loads.

I'm sort of glad you did this. Maybe this could become a mod for consideration for guys that need big fuel due to hybrid injectors and such like. Nice work.
 

roosterdiesel

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NEokcTERROR said:
Mine is on 88 PSI. ZERO FP drop with the submerged pump in the tank. ZERO air in the return. My regulator and return are stock (shimmed as it was when I purchased it from a friend). Standard pickup / sock filter on the in-tank pump. Lots more power etc(quicker boost, more boost, more smoke before high boost onandon, better startup cold and hot, and smoother idle. I ran a relay tapped into the wire going to my trailer constant power with the frame pump power wire activating the relay. And I finally put an EGT in it more black smoke bothers me. :burnit

I thought we were talking in-line pusher pump.:sorry

I've thought about the in-tank pump. What are you using? I've used Walbro on a Turbo Buick and liked it. I actually talked to them and they didn't know how it would take the diesel. The other thing I had problems with was the sock like you use. I've seen one guy have problems and it turned out to be the sock he put on his stock pick up. With #2 being as dirty as it is I didn't want to chance it. If you have probs in the future with FP fluxuating I'd check that first.

88psi? Wow! hope your seals hold.
 

NEokcTERROR

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I just went with the "go with what you know" on this deal. I don't know the exact specs, but the pump I used is an AC/Delco EP386 which is a TBI 88-95 Chevy pickup fuel pump which in my experience internally bypasses @ around 20 PSI on the ones I have tested in the past by blocking off the return. I used the sock filter the pump calls for on an 88 chevy truck. I feel that 20 PSI is possibly a little too high, and I will be changing the pump out for a lower pressure one or I may put a low press. bypass regulator between the pumps to lower the pressure to 12 PSI. This will probably extend pump life as those TBI systems the pump is designed for operate @ 12 PSI working pressure. Funny thing about electric pumps is the working pressure needs to be where they are designed to operate "pressure too low and the pump runs too fast and wears out, pressure too high and the motor runs under too much load and burns up.

I think my truck was sucking air really bad prior to this mod. I would stand on it for the first 2 gears let off the throttle and cruise a constant speed, and it would run really rough on light acceleration for a little while kind of like a gasoline car on the verge of running out of fuel. The problem is now gone, and all my power is back like it was over 100,000 miles ago, and then some.
:D
 

BWard

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What exactly are the benefits of the hutch mod?
Is it worth doing?
About how long and how hard is it to do??
 

Hoss 350

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BWard said:
What exactly are the benefits of the hutch mod?
Air plus diesel injectors equals:
1.) Poor, uncontrolled timing events;
2.) Poor, uncontrollable fuel pressures;
3.) Damaged, scored, and otherwise beat-up injectors (and at $1,600 a set, this one is REALLY big!)

All of this results is rougher running, less power, and more noise.

In the 99+ ford powerstroke, the fuel system had several points in which air could infiltrate the fuel system and cause air bubbles in the diesel supply. It also had a few points where pressure differentials "freed up" otherwise entrained air in the diesel fuel (like shaking a can of soda pop). The result of many very intelligent men trying to find a way to fix this problem was the Hutch Mod, named after the user name of the gent that created it, Hutchinaugusta. I'll give you a quick synopsis of what the mod does, along with it's sister mod, the "pre-pump".

The factory fuel system had a bunch of places where air could infiltrate the system, on the vacuum/suction side of the pump. Starting at the tank, there was a device commonly known as a "duckbill" that sucked in air whenever the truck was under 1/4 tank of so. If your truck makes more noise when it is below 1/4 tank, it is not just you, it is really happening because of this duckbill. The Hutch mod eliminates this guy. He is not necessary.

Moving on, there is a devilish little device inside the tank known as a "mixing valve" who's sole purpose is to mix warm fuel from the fuel return in with the supply fuel from the tank, to "pre-heat" the fuel and prevent gelling. Not only did it not work very well for that purpose, it also had the distinct problem of returning air bubbles from the return line right back into the fuel system and into the injectors. The Hutch mod also eliminates this guy, and reroutes the return fuel to the other side of the tank from the pickup, to keep bubbly return fuel away fromt eh pickup until it has time to lose its bubbles.

At the outlet of the tank, there is the first in a series of quick-disconnect fittings, which have shown to work quite well under pressure to keep fuel IN, but don't work worth sour owl sh*t in under vacuum to keep AIR OUT. The mod eliminates these guys.

Finally, the "pre-pump" portion of the mod eliminates the final two suction-side QD fittings right before the lift pump on the frame rail.

All of these guys resulted in Hutch having found that his fuel supply was almost totally foam, not actual diesel fuel.

Is it worth doing?
Most have noticed distinct benefits, which include better fuel economy, less noise, smoother operation, quieter idle, etc. It will also almost definitely improve your injector life. I personally would do it again in a heartbeat.
About how long and how hard is it to do??
You have to remove the fuel tank, which is not, in and of itself, necessarily difficult. Getting it back up there will take help from a friend. It is not difficult. The tank holds on with 4 bolts. Just run it down to almost empty and let 'er rip. While you are in there, do the harpoon mod so you can fill your tank up faster. I figure it will take a decent shadetree about 4 hours (including beer breaks).

Do your homework first and decide what type of pre-pump filter to use, etc. Oh, and I highly recommend that you replace your entire pre-pump system with diesel-rated clear hose, so if you still have air, you can isolate it's source.
 

BWard

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Thank you Hoss. That is exactly what I was looking for.
I have not yet heard of the Harpoon mod,I like that idea.
I will try to find out what most other people are using for
filters and us it. I will now do this mod in the near future.
Hoss, Thanks Again !!!!:thumbs
 

NEokcTERROR

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BWard said:
Thank you Hoss. That is exactly what I was looking for.
I have not yet heard of the Harpoon mod,I like that idea.
I will try to find out what most other people are using for
filters and us it. I will now do this mod in the near future.
Hoss, Thanks Again !!!!:thumbs

If you use the uppermost portion of the filler neck off of a 88-2000 Chevy diesel truck you can poke the huge semi truck filler nozzles in it and really fill'er up.
 

CHPMustang

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NEokcTERROR said:
If you use the uppermost portion of the filler neck off of a 88-2000 Chevy diesel truck you can poke the huge semi truck filler nozzles in it and really fill'er up.
Have you done that mod your 99 SuperDuty? If so I'd like to hear more details to the part number/s,adaptability to the Ford upper hose and so on.

We harpooned the tank a few years back :D
 

NEokcTERROR

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CHPMustang said:
Have you done that mod your 99 SuperDuty? If so I'd like to hear more details to the part number/s,adaptability to the Ford upper hose and so on.

We harpooned the tank a few years back :D

I did a friends '01 a couple years back. I'll call him and see if he has his reciept still, so I can post up all the part numbers for everything required. We do so much custom stuff it's hard to remember off the top of my head.
 

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