ninteyeight.5
SDD Junior Member
Please note that the extended time frame this happens in is largely due to my not being able to go to the dealership except for Fridays. My work schedule is 4X10, so only that day is free when they are open. The recent switch to emails has been due to being out of town, so this also should not be construed as a long time taken on their part.
I took my truck [1998 1/2 - 7.3L Powerstroke - F 350] in December 16, 2011 to have all the injectors and glow plugs replaced. I told the service writer that it had trouble starting at work a few evenings before when the temperature had gotten near freezing, even with the glow plugs. I also told him the mileage had been falling off lately and with the advanced mileage [198K] replacing them should hold me over to the reasonable life expectancy of the engine.
As arranged beforehand, I went in to pick it up the following Friday[12/23/2011]. When I went into the yard to start it with the temperature about 45F that day, it still didn't want to start at first. when it did start, there was a noticeable miss at idle. Then I ran the idle up to 1300rpm on the engine idle control box, to see if it would smooth out as it warmed up, but it didn't. I went back and after starting the engine again, showed the service writer the above since he had driven the truck into their yard when i brought the truck in. He said he could also feel the miss at that time, and wrote up a new work order. I was told they would call me when the problem was located.
The following Tuesday, 12/27/2011 I called them around noon wondering why it was taking so long. I was told that #8 injector had issues, but they still couldn't find out why it did not readily start the Friday before. The man who I talked to said they would call back when they located the problem. After noon, I was called, and told the cold start problem was that the ICP was disconnected, and now with it reconnected, the cold start problem was fixed. He said that #8 injector would need replaced, and after checking that parts dept. had one in stock he called back saying that he would call me if it was ready that evening, or the next morning.
On 12/28/2011 @ 2:30PM, I was called and told the injector was replaced, but the miss was still there. I was also told that they had gotten codes that the problem was a bent rocker arm OR a bent piston push rod OR a bent valve OR a bent rocker arm push rod...causing poor compression, and that to proceed I would be responsible for ALL of the costs of repair from here on out.
After some major whining to FOMOCO, the dealership agreed to start locating what ever had gone wrong.
The next time i talked to the service manager by email, he said:
"Well to be honest I have done at my expense a lot more invasive diagnostics, low compression is one of the factors, and you have 3 cylinders at the maximum low compression levels, which is 25psi low the normal compression level is 400psi and you have three cylinders at 375psi. But this still does not explain the miss off idle, the vehicle while at idle does not quiver or miss but at the rpm you described (12-1300 rpm ) it does so now I have to my tech to put the old injectors back in the unit to verify that the condition was there or not before with the old injectors. This is a process of elimination you will not owe for this portion but if we eliminate that it has anything to do with what my service dept did I will let you know so you can decide if you want to fix the concern. I am sorry it has taken so long a lot of the time has been spent testing and deciding which direction to go with the diagnosis."
Later, i asked him by email, what #8 compression had been, and what rpm the miss starts at with the accelerator. the next time i heard from him he said:
"THE MISS STARTS AT AROUND 1100 AND GOES TO AROUND 1400 OR SO THEN ITS NOT NOTICIBLE, IT’S ALSO NOT NOTICIBLE WHILE DRIVING AT ANY RPMS. OH BY THE WAY
WHILE SEARCHING FOR MORE INFO MY TECH NOTICED THERES AN OPEN RECALL ON YOUR VEHICLE THAT WE ARE GOING TO PERFORM WHILE ITS HERE. THE COMPRESSION RATIO FOR THE #8 CYLINDER IS 400 PSI BUT YOU DON’T GO TOTALLY BY AN INDIVIDUAL CYLINDER YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL CYLINDERS BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE COMP RATIOS IS WHAT DETERMINES BALANCE OR SMOOTH IDLE OR REV. THE COMP RATIOS ARE AS FOLLOWS; #1 400, 2 400, 3 375, 4 375, 5 400, 6 380, 7 400, 8 400. NOTICE THAT CYLINDER NUMBER THREE AND FOUR ARE BOTH DOWN. MY TECH MENTIONED THAT THESE CYLINDERS ARE REALLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO A CONDITION CALLED DUSTING. DUSTING IS WHEN THERE IS DIRT THAT BY PASSES THE AIR FILTER FROM THE AIR BOX, THIS CAN HAPPEN WHEN THE AIR FILTER IS NOT MAINTENANCED CORRECTLY OR IF IN YOU CASE YOU USE A K&N AIR FILTER THAT DOES NOT SEAL AS WELL AS THE FACTORY FILTER. IN FACT FORD WONT WARRANTY ANY UNIT FOR ENGINE DAMAGE IF IT HAS AN AFTERMARKET HIGH FLOW AIR FILTER ON IT. YOUR AIR INTAKE TUBE IS VERY CLEAN LIKE SOMEONE HAS RECENTLY CLEANED THE ENTIRE TUBE, THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL FOR IT TO BE SO CLEAN YOUR AIR FILTER IS VERY DIRTY AND THAT MAKES THE CLEAN INTAKE TUBE EVEN THAT MUCH MORE UNUSUAL. AT THIS POINT I HAVE 17 HOURS OF DIAG AND RESEARCH IN IT AND HAVE NOTHING MORE THAN THE COMPRESSION RATIOS TO SAY IS THE PROBLEM. ANOTHER TEST THAT WE PERFORMED IN OUR DIAG WAS A CYLINDER CORTRIBUTION TEST AND INJECTOR INTERUPT TEST AND THE RESULTS WERE THAT THOSE CYLINDERS WITH THE LOW COMPRESSION WERE OF COURSE CONTRIBUTING LESS POWER. AT THIS POINT I DON’T HAVE ANY MORE THAT I CAN DO TO FIX THE ROUGH IDLE CONCERN SINCE THE COMPRESSION IS SUCH A FACTOR IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THE ENGINE."
So it is starting to sound like, nearly $4,400 dollars downstream, that I will have to fix this problem myself.
ANY information as to where to start looking will be appreciated/needed next week when I go to pick the truck up.
Thank you in advance.
I took my truck [1998 1/2 - 7.3L Powerstroke - F 350] in December 16, 2011 to have all the injectors and glow plugs replaced. I told the service writer that it had trouble starting at work a few evenings before when the temperature had gotten near freezing, even with the glow plugs. I also told him the mileage had been falling off lately and with the advanced mileage [198K] replacing them should hold me over to the reasonable life expectancy of the engine.
As arranged beforehand, I went in to pick it up the following Friday[12/23/2011]. When I went into the yard to start it with the temperature about 45F that day, it still didn't want to start at first. when it did start, there was a noticeable miss at idle. Then I ran the idle up to 1300rpm on the engine idle control box, to see if it would smooth out as it warmed up, but it didn't. I went back and after starting the engine again, showed the service writer the above since he had driven the truck into their yard when i brought the truck in. He said he could also feel the miss at that time, and wrote up a new work order. I was told they would call me when the problem was located.
The following Tuesday, 12/27/2011 I called them around noon wondering why it was taking so long. I was told that #8 injector had issues, but they still couldn't find out why it did not readily start the Friday before. The man who I talked to said they would call back when they located the problem. After noon, I was called, and told the cold start problem was that the ICP was disconnected, and now with it reconnected, the cold start problem was fixed. He said that #8 injector would need replaced, and after checking that parts dept. had one in stock he called back saying that he would call me if it was ready that evening, or the next morning.
On 12/28/2011 @ 2:30PM, I was called and told the injector was replaced, but the miss was still there. I was also told that they had gotten codes that the problem was a bent rocker arm OR a bent piston push rod OR a bent valve OR a bent rocker arm push rod...causing poor compression, and that to proceed I would be responsible for ALL of the costs of repair from here on out.
After some major whining to FOMOCO, the dealership agreed to start locating what ever had gone wrong.
The next time i talked to the service manager by email, he said:
"Well to be honest I have done at my expense a lot more invasive diagnostics, low compression is one of the factors, and you have 3 cylinders at the maximum low compression levels, which is 25psi low the normal compression level is 400psi and you have three cylinders at 375psi. But this still does not explain the miss off idle, the vehicle while at idle does not quiver or miss but at the rpm you described (12-1300 rpm ) it does so now I have to my tech to put the old injectors back in the unit to verify that the condition was there or not before with the old injectors. This is a process of elimination you will not owe for this portion but if we eliminate that it has anything to do with what my service dept did I will let you know so you can decide if you want to fix the concern. I am sorry it has taken so long a lot of the time has been spent testing and deciding which direction to go with the diagnosis."
Later, i asked him by email, what #8 compression had been, and what rpm the miss starts at with the accelerator. the next time i heard from him he said:
"THE MISS STARTS AT AROUND 1100 AND GOES TO AROUND 1400 OR SO THEN ITS NOT NOTICIBLE, IT’S ALSO NOT NOTICIBLE WHILE DRIVING AT ANY RPMS. OH BY THE WAY
WHILE SEARCHING FOR MORE INFO MY TECH NOTICED THERES AN OPEN RECALL ON YOUR VEHICLE THAT WE ARE GOING TO PERFORM WHILE ITS HERE. THE COMPRESSION RATIO FOR THE #8 CYLINDER IS 400 PSI BUT YOU DON’T GO TOTALLY BY AN INDIVIDUAL CYLINDER YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT ALL CYLINDERS BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE IN THE COMP RATIOS IS WHAT DETERMINES BALANCE OR SMOOTH IDLE OR REV. THE COMP RATIOS ARE AS FOLLOWS; #1 400, 2 400, 3 375, 4 375, 5 400, 6 380, 7 400, 8 400. NOTICE THAT CYLINDER NUMBER THREE AND FOUR ARE BOTH DOWN. MY TECH MENTIONED THAT THESE CYLINDERS ARE REALLY SUSCEPTIBLE TO A CONDITION CALLED DUSTING. DUSTING IS WHEN THERE IS DIRT THAT BY PASSES THE AIR FILTER FROM THE AIR BOX, THIS CAN HAPPEN WHEN THE AIR FILTER IS NOT MAINTENANCED CORRECTLY OR IF IN YOU CASE YOU USE A K&N AIR FILTER THAT DOES NOT SEAL AS WELL AS THE FACTORY FILTER. IN FACT FORD WONT WARRANTY ANY UNIT FOR ENGINE DAMAGE IF IT HAS AN AFTERMARKET HIGH FLOW AIR FILTER ON IT. YOUR AIR INTAKE TUBE IS VERY CLEAN LIKE SOMEONE HAS RECENTLY CLEANED THE ENTIRE TUBE, THIS IS VERY UNUSUAL FOR IT TO BE SO CLEAN YOUR AIR FILTER IS VERY DIRTY AND THAT MAKES THE CLEAN INTAKE TUBE EVEN THAT MUCH MORE UNUSUAL. AT THIS POINT I HAVE 17 HOURS OF DIAG AND RESEARCH IN IT AND HAVE NOTHING MORE THAN THE COMPRESSION RATIOS TO SAY IS THE PROBLEM. ANOTHER TEST THAT WE PERFORMED IN OUR DIAG WAS A CYLINDER CORTRIBUTION TEST AND INJECTOR INTERUPT TEST AND THE RESULTS WERE THAT THOSE CYLINDERS WITH THE LOW COMPRESSION WERE OF COURSE CONTRIBUTING LESS POWER. AT THIS POINT I DON’T HAVE ANY MORE THAT I CAN DO TO FIX THE ROUGH IDLE CONCERN SINCE THE COMPRESSION IS SUCH A FACTOR IN THE PERFORMANCE OF THE ENGINE."
So it is starting to sound like, nearly $4,400 dollars downstream, that I will have to fix this problem myself.
ANY information as to where to start looking will be appreciated/needed next week when I go to pick the truck up.
Thank you in advance.
