trackspeeder
Stone Crusher
The only thing you will gain is that little sucker gun
. Thanksgiving is coming soon. I bet that little sucker gun will be a good turkey baster. 
HPOP oil reservoir, oil change?
- Thread starter northshore
- Start date
The only thing you will gain is that little sucker gun
. Thanksgiving is coming soon. I bet that little sucker gun will be a good turkey baster. 
Got Diesel
Engineering College Boy
If your doing the reservoir you might as well drain the rails in the heads too. Just to get all the oil out of the system. There is no reason to change the oil in the HPOP reservoir.
uloadit
Full Access Member
BUT IT MAKES ME FEEL ALL WARM AND FUZZY changing it out
i actually put this to the test after pulling out some very dark sludgy looking oil out of my hp oil res once, after reading that it circulates. I put some uv dye directly into the oil fill tube let the truck run a bit then stuck a small screwdriver into the hp oil rez to find that there was UV dye present. So it definately does cycle so I cant explain why it looked so awful when I had recently changed my oil. But yeah its mostly up to you.
DIESELSITE
Supporting Vendor
HPOP Oil System Pathways:
The inlet to the reservoir is the large standpipe that ends just short of the top cover. This is to prevent drain back of the reservoir.
The standpipe is feed by two sources of oil. The first is the feed from the low pressure oil pump through a passage way in the front of the engine and through the anti-drainback check valve. The 2nd source of oil is from the left side lifter gallery.
The oil is feed into the reservoir to supply the HPOP. The supply to the HPOP is the hole in the bottom of the reservoir. There is also a small air bleed hole in the reservoir that returns oil back into the crankcase. The reason that the reservoir never seems to fill when you’re manually filling is the two holes, the air bleed hole and the standpipe itself that let oil bleed back into the left back oil gallery until the oil is level with the top of the standpipe.
The IPR returns oil from the pump into the front cover below the reservoir, but enters a standpipe that runs through the casting of the reservoir and dumps back into the front cover to lubricate the HPOP and cam gears and then returns to the pan. The IPR does not, like many think, return to the reservoir. This oil is super heated from being compressed, and needs to be cooled.
The reservoir holds about ¾ of a quart. The rate at which the reservoir is changed has nothing to do with the injectors or the chip program. This oil is changed at a fixed rate based on the output of the pump. Remember, it’s a fixed displacement pump. The injectors useage is feed to the rails, with 100% of the balance of the HPOP’s output being sent back to the crackcase through the IPR. There is absolutely no way any oil spends any length of time at all in the reservoir. If you want to get real specific…. The oil also leaves the reservoir through the air bleed hole from pressure from the LPOP. This is not a fixed rate since the hole is a fixed orifice and the reservoir pressure varies based on engine rpms. That amount could be very significant.
The rate of exchange (that the HPOP is responsible for) could be figured pretty easy. A stock late model pump moves about 6.8 cc’s per engine revolution. At 800 rpms (idle), the pump is displacing 5440 cc’s or 5.78 quarts per minute!!!! At 3000 rpms, that same reservoir is exchanging its contents at a rate of 21.5 quarts per minute. That means it replaced the reservoir sump contents with oil from the pan in 2 seconds. This is why there are no formal directions from Ford or International on how to change this oil. It’s not a conspiracy guys.
The other area of oil in the HPOP system is the actual rail. These consist of the flexible lines from the HPOP to the heads. The heads have a machined gallery that runs the length of the head to hold pressurized oil for the injectors. Each injector intersects this rail. This is a dead end system. This means that there is only one entrance and one exit. The oil has only one way to go. The only exit is the injector. These rails hold about ¾ quart of oil each. These empty or exchange at the rate the injectors “consume” it. I use the word consume, but it doesn’t burn the oil, it uses it to actuate the hydraulic portion of the injector. Unlike a traditional hydraulic piston that recycles the fluid internally in the piston body, the HEUI injector uses the oil needed to extend the plunger, which expels fuel, but on the retraction stroke, expels the oil into the top of the head to drain back into the oil pan. So, the larger the injector, the longer the pulse width, and the more time you spend at WOT, etc, all play a part in how fast these rails exchange their contents. This calculation is more difficult, based on too many variables. However, it is not 7:1 as I have seen someone mention. This is the multiplier to injection pressure and has nothing do with the actual volume of oil. Suffice it to say, the oil in the rails doesn’t hang around long either.
Bob
The inlet to the reservoir is the large standpipe that ends just short of the top cover. This is to prevent drain back of the reservoir.
The standpipe is feed by two sources of oil. The first is the feed from the low pressure oil pump through a passage way in the front of the engine and through the anti-drainback check valve. The 2nd source of oil is from the left side lifter gallery.
The oil is feed into the reservoir to supply the HPOP. The supply to the HPOP is the hole in the bottom of the reservoir. There is also a small air bleed hole in the reservoir that returns oil back into the crankcase. The reason that the reservoir never seems to fill when you’re manually filling is the two holes, the air bleed hole and the standpipe itself that let oil bleed back into the left back oil gallery until the oil is level with the top of the standpipe.
The IPR returns oil from the pump into the front cover below the reservoir, but enters a standpipe that runs through the casting of the reservoir and dumps back into the front cover to lubricate the HPOP and cam gears and then returns to the pan. The IPR does not, like many think, return to the reservoir. This oil is super heated from being compressed, and needs to be cooled.
The reservoir holds about ¾ of a quart. The rate at which the reservoir is changed has nothing to do with the injectors or the chip program. This oil is changed at a fixed rate based on the output of the pump. Remember, it’s a fixed displacement pump. The injectors useage is feed to the rails, with 100% of the balance of the HPOP’s output being sent back to the crackcase through the IPR. There is absolutely no way any oil spends any length of time at all in the reservoir. If you want to get real specific…. The oil also leaves the reservoir through the air bleed hole from pressure from the LPOP. This is not a fixed rate since the hole is a fixed orifice and the reservoir pressure varies based on engine rpms. That amount could be very significant.
The rate of exchange (that the HPOP is responsible for) could be figured pretty easy. A stock late model pump moves about 6.8 cc’s per engine revolution. At 800 rpms (idle), the pump is displacing 5440 cc’s or 5.78 quarts per minute!!!! At 3000 rpms, that same reservoir is exchanging its contents at a rate of 21.5 quarts per minute. That means it replaced the reservoir sump contents with oil from the pan in 2 seconds. This is why there are no formal directions from Ford or International on how to change this oil. It’s not a conspiracy guys.
The other area of oil in the HPOP system is the actual rail. These consist of the flexible lines from the HPOP to the heads. The heads have a machined gallery that runs the length of the head to hold pressurized oil for the injectors. Each injector intersects this rail. This is a dead end system. This means that there is only one entrance and one exit. The oil has only one way to go. The only exit is the injector. These rails hold about ¾ quart of oil each. These empty or exchange at the rate the injectors “consume” it. I use the word consume, but it doesn’t burn the oil, it uses it to actuate the hydraulic portion of the injector. Unlike a traditional hydraulic piston that recycles the fluid internally in the piston body, the HEUI injector uses the oil needed to extend the plunger, which expels fuel, but on the retraction stroke, expels the oil into the top of the head to drain back into the oil pan. So, the larger the injector, the longer the pulse width, and the more time you spend at WOT, etc, all play a part in how fast these rails exchange their contents. This calculation is more difficult, based on too many variables. However, it is not 7:1 as I have seen someone mention. This is the multiplier to injection pressure and has nothing do with the actual volume of oil. Suffice it to say, the oil in the rails doesn’t hang around long either.
Bob
bigrigr
Real trks hv 3 pdls
I just want to say, that it all makes sense to me, except one thing. What is all the sludge that these guys claim to be removing? I have seen many engines apart and running that have a sludge built up on the interior parts, could there be a problem with deposits/contaminants settling into the bottom of the resevoir? Not that the oil doesn't get moved around and filtered, but that they are simply removing the crud on the bottom of the resevoir. If this is the case, it seems that it would be worth the effort once in a while also.
DIESELSITE
Supporting Vendor
Well, knowing that the very bottom of the reservoir is the hole into the HPOP, there is no way for any dirt or sludge to settle out. But, since I don't know the details of way these folks found sludge, I'd first guess they were on late 1999 to 2003 trucks that were equipped with filter screens on the reservoir gasket. When they suck out the reservoir and think they are on the bottom, they are actually scrapping the screen filter. That was the reason the filters were added.
But, again, the actual OIL is not in that reservoir longer than you could say .. "I wonder if I should change that"
And as I've said to many people before. If your anal enough to feel the need to get those pesky drops of oil out of the reservoir for an oil change, the amount of oil left in the rails should be keeping you up at night.
Bob
But, again, the actual OIL is not in that reservoir longer than you could say .. "I wonder if I should change that"
And as I've said to many people before. If your anal enough to feel the need to get those pesky drops of oil out of the reservoir for an oil change, the amount of oil left in the rails should be keeping you up at night.
Bob
bigrigr
Real trks hv 3 pdls
Lol, that makes total sense! Now the new issue is, there is a screen in the old trucks that isn't in the later model trucks? Is it a problem if it's in there? It sounds as though you're saying that it is needed, but if it has sludge on it....... Just curious, seems you know you're stuff. Thanks for the info, just trying to understand the system better.
DIESELSITE
Supporting Vendor
In 96-mid 99, the reservoir gasket looked like this https://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=890
Then in late 99 starting with engine serial number 1039780 Ford integrated a screen filter into the gasket to filter the oil prior to entering the HPOP and IPR seen here https://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=889
There should never be "sludge" in there, but I would expect to find pieces of silicon gasket material, general dirt, paint, possibly pieces of metal from anything that wore in the engine, etc. Basically, anything that might make it way to the oil pan of your engine. In all reality, the amount of junk in there should be so small that you should never have to clean it for the life of the motor, but I've seen some pretty nasty ones.
But, to answer your question, yes, it's good to have, but you can't use it on an engine that didn't come with it as the front cover was machined to accept it. We came up with an adapter for this reason seen here. https://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=868
Hope that helps.
Bob
Then in late 99 starting with engine serial number 1039780 Ford integrated a screen filter into the gasket to filter the oil prior to entering the HPOP and IPR seen here https://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=889
There should never be "sludge" in there, but I would expect to find pieces of silicon gasket material, general dirt, paint, possibly pieces of metal from anything that wore in the engine, etc. Basically, anything that might make it way to the oil pan of your engine. In all reality, the amount of junk in there should be so small that you should never have to clean it for the life of the motor, but I've seen some pretty nasty ones.
But, to answer your question, yes, it's good to have, but you can't use it on an engine that didn't come with it as the front cover was machined to accept it. We came up with an adapter for this reason seen here. https://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=868
Hope that helps.
Bob
bigrigr
Real trks hv 3 pdls
Thanks Bob, that clears it up for me. I appreciate the info!