Still running rough, dealership is CLUELESS!!

[TexasExcursion]

I'm stumped. And frustrated.

After starting the truck up when the engine is cold--regardless of air temperature outside--it runs very rough, almost like it's running on 6 cylinders. No power, either. It does get worse when the temp's are colder, but even during the summer I'd have to let it idle for 10 minutes before driving it.

Here's what I've done over the past year to try and fix it:
-changed oil and filters (several times)
-changed fuel filters (several times)
-replaced EGR valve
-replaced turbo
-cleaned CAC and replaced CAC clamp
-flashed PCM with 06E17
-replaced K&N air intake with factory intake after Ford insisted the MAF on the K&N was giving the PCM faulty readings, hence the rough operation at start up
-disconnected EGR valve (worked okay for about a week, then truck started running goofy--surging--so I plugged it back in)

Is there anything else I can try? The problem is getting ridiculous and the clowns at every Ford dealership I've been to are completely clueless. Once it warms up it runs fine.

-is it the Amsoil 5W30 synthetic?
-is the motor shot?

Someone--please--throw me a bone here. Thanks.

 

[jharvey]

Well it could be that Terry you're pulling around, so just bring on over here to Atlanta and leave it with me for a month or so and we'll see if the truck runs better then

Seriously, are there any codes thrown, has the stealership even scanned it to see what may be happening in the PCM?

 

[bushpilot]

is it throwing/setting any codes ?
whats the boost like when its cold/running rough ?
what are the EGT's like when its cold / rough running ?

Im wondering if its an injector / hpop issue and some injectors
arent working until the hpop pressure rises....wonder what an
injector buzz test would show.

if boost is abnormally high it could be the vgt, egr or ebp...
stuck or non functioning egr could show elevated egt's.

since you have that exhaust (like i do) if youre running the
cat delete you should be able to hear the vanes on the turbo
go shut when the truck starts (change in exhaust sound) when
the oil pressure rises (the vanes go shut on turbo and it sounds
like WOOOOOOOOSH/jet engine)

surely its throwing some codes no ???

 

[TexasExcursion]

is it throwing/setting any codes ?

Using my newly acquired Autoenginuity, I've started keeping a log of DTC's. Here's the latest:
P2286 ICP Sensor circuit high (had this since installing Quadzilla)
U2016 Signal link short to ground non SCP
P0275 Cylinder 5 injector circuit contribution/balance fault (since cleared on own)

whats the boost like when its cold/running rough ?

It'll boost up to 6 or 7 psi, but the truck won't go. It's almost as if the turbo is giving the engine power, but the engine is saying "hell no, not yet." I do hear the turbo whine even when the boost guage is reading under 1 psi.

what are the EGT's like when its cold / rough running ?

Normal. I rarely go above 650 when it's running rough. Normal operations are generally under 1000, too.

Im wondering if its an injector / hpop issue and some injectors
arent working until the hpop pressure rises....wonder what an
injector buzz test would show.

My last Ford dealership thought it was an oil pressure issue as well. They noticed that the CAC was oily, so they cleaned it and replaced the clamp. This helped, but by no means cured the problem. The injector buzz test passes every time I run it; I can hear all 8 injectors buzzing, too.

since you have that exhaust (like i do) if youre running the
cat delete you should be able to hear the vanes on the turbo
go shut when the truck starts (change in exhaust sound) when
the oil pressure rises (the vanes go shut on turbo and it sounds
like WOOOOOOOOSH/jet engine)

I do notice a difference in the exhaust sound while the truck is idling. I've still got the cat, but standing behind the vehicle when idling, it'll sound normal, then all the sudden the exhaust pitch will change to very deep, throaty (and wicked nice!!) sound, then after awhile it'll change back to the normal pitch with a bit of turbo whine. Is this the vanes opening and closing?

I'm by no means diesel literate, but to me it seems like it's an oil pressure issue. The engine is starving until reaching operating temps and then it runs fine. Incidentally, the Quadzilla chip leaves the engine on the stock file until reaching operating temps, and I can tell when driving when the Quad applies the power to one of the power settings because the truck jumps up the power. It's typically about 1-2 minutes after the Quad says it's at operating temps that the truck smooths out and runs fine.

 

[TexasExcursion]

Well it could be that Terry you're pulling around, so just bring on over here to Atlanta and leave it with me for a month or so and we'll see if the truck runs better then

I might consider that if I thought the truck would make it down to Atlanta...

Seriously, are there any codes thrown, has the stealership even scanned it to see what may be happening in the PCM?

See previous post. The typical course of action for the service techs is to start looking at the truck, see an aftermarket accessory, say that this non-Ford part is causing the problem, and send it back to me. The lastest was the K&N air intake; the service rep said the MAF on the K&N's don't work, so out of desperation, I bought a used one (Thanks Todd -6L PWR) and installed it and it didn't do a damn thing. But each time I go through this process, I eat up time transporting my truck to/from the dealership and leaving work early to do so. I'm at 94k on the ticker, so I've started to look for the famous back-yard mechanic who everybody recommends. No luck yet.

 

[jharvey]

Bruce, my apologies, I should have asked if you had a tuner.

Have you taken the quadzilla out to eliminate any issues it may be causing?

The short to ground sounds like a wiring harness issue,I think there was a TSB on that though, check all your wiring to make sure nothing has rubbed.

 

[bushpilot]

Im w/ john, but i suspect youve done this too....
run w/ out the quad box...for a few days see if things continue.

that ICP alarm is normal...thats what all these boxes do...they mess
w/ the timing and PRESSURES <fuel/injection>

have you left the truck w/ the dealers over night...personally,
and again ive seen your posts etc...so i know youre smart, id
go to that dealer after having left the truck there over night
and start the thing w/ the tech IN the truck.

i know youve had several turbos...and it goes back to my issue
that i think they replace 'em when they dont know whats really
wrong...theres just not that much to go wrong WITH any turbo,
and the only thing that can go wrong w/ ours is the vari-vanes.

the exhaust sound / change you hear is the vanes opening &
closing...they CLOSE on start up to aid in warming of the truck...
but there have been some flashes that have reduced the amount
they close...

heres something good that might make things clear about the
vanes...and high lights the only possible issue our turbo can
have: Turbocharger Reconditioning

have the VGT & EBPV solenoids been replaced ? I know youre egr has
been replaced at least once.

i dont see cleaning the intercooler out having any real impact...the
oil in our intercoolers is from the RE-VENT of the crankcase pressure...
its always gonna have oil accumulation in the intercooler...and its
gonna leak at the clamps (if they arent tight)

 

[TexasExcursion]

Bruce, my apologies, I should have asked if you had a tuner.

Have you taken the quadzilla out to eliminate any issues it may be causing?

The short to ground sounds like a wiring harness issue,I think there was a TSB on that though, check all your wiring to make sure nothing has rubbed.

Keep in mind that this problem has been going on for about a year, and I just installed the Quadzilla about 3 weeks ago. I did have an SCMT before that, and I had the problem regardless of which power level I was running, to include stock. The truck ran the same cold when I installed the Quad, so that can't be the problem.

BP, I agree with you that I'm not sure the turbo's have been bad except for one of the four times when the bearings in the turbo were obviously shot. Other than that, and the problem could have been anything.

have you left the truck w/ the dealers over night...personally,
and again ive seen your posts etc...so i know youre smart, id
go to that dealer after having left the truck there over night
and start the thing w/ the tech IN the truck.

This is why dropping the truck off at the dealership is such a PITA. I always drop it off the night before so they start it up cold and experience what's going on. The only thing I haven't done is drive to the dealership in the morning (in my wifes car) so I'm with them when they start it up. That may be good for me to do, but at this point my opinion of the Ford techs is so low that I'm not sure it'd solve anything.

 

[bushpilot]

Bruce im in full agreement w/ your opinion of the techs...but i dont
kwno if its cause they dont give a rats ass or theyre not being trained...

at the same time your problem (intermittent as it is) you need a better
than average wrench...someone that is challenged by something more
than a brake job or bolting on & off turbos

think id be tryin to find another dealer...dont know if thats even
an option...

'bout the time they told me cleaning out the intercooler & tightening
the clamps would have been the end of my experiances w/ them...

 

[DaveBen]

I think Bushpilot is right. Try another dealer.

Dave